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x_projectThis is where I'm a glutton for punishment, since I play the char people love to hate, and the Team Hardass. What do you think of Manuel and/or Haroun? - Redhawk
Glutton for punishment? *incredulous* What the hell were you thinking I'd say? You think I can't see you shamelessly trying to manipulate me over there? :P
Note: I had spare time on my hands, so this is very long.
Manuel
First off, I don't "love to hate" Manuel. I don't hate him at all. I'm fascinated by the person(s) he's been and become: the traumatized, emotionally-destroyed child he was when he arrived at the mansion and the people he's become since then.
He tries out personalities like flavors of ice cream and retains a definitely childish belief in a magical solution that should fix all his problems.
He was pampered and spoiled for most of his life, then thrown into a cycle of repeated abuse that for a normal person would have been devastating and was probably doubly traumatic for someone as protected as Manuel had been. Then he was rescued and brought to the mansion, where he thought things would fall back into a "normal" routine, but no one at the mansion would put up with being ordered around like a servant. As far as they were concerned, he was just like everyone else and didn't deserve special treatment.
To Manuel this wasn't, as some might have thought, a grounding experience or an important life lesson, but just another painful shock in a series. This on top of everyone else's emotions scraping him raw (something it would have been hard not to take as a personal attack). It makes sense that he would lash out and take out his frustration and pain on everyone else, because no one tried to help him in ways he could understand. He was trying to put his world and his life back together- to make them act the way he thought they should act, to make them feel things less painful to him. (But the other characters weren't the villains here, as abuse victims and their continuing problems are hard to deal with, and their emotional problems and defenses enough to frustrate a saint.)
The relationship with Amanda is by turns sweet and disturbing, as neither of them has the skills necessary to hold a conventional relationship, or knowledge of what a healthy relationship is like. But somehow, they make it work and you make it convincing.
Manuel is a great character, and actually seems like he is really hard to write; because it's so hard to find characters with abusive histories that aren't done solely for the sake of melodrama. You've avoided this completely; and created and sustained a character who may not be conventionally "likable", but is understandable and detailed and enjoyable to read about. Often, I'm torn between sympathy and revulsion at his actions (fighting with Nate, the scenes with Lorna and Bobby, and the way he damaged everyone around him).
But I do like Manuel and often feel sorry for him, because he doesn't have to deal with just his pain, he has to deal with everybody else's, as well. And then, of course, he whines and carries on about it so much and blames everyone else for things they can't help until everyone is utterly sick of him, and it's hard for them to overcome their irritation with him long enough to help him. (And they do make heroic efforts: points to Nate and Lorna for not killing him on any number of occasions.) I like Manuel. He's a complicated character with complicated problems and a writer who excels at hard-hitting drama- of course I adore him.
As always, more will be forthcoming.
Glutton for punishment? *incredulous* What the hell were you thinking I'd say? You think I can't see you shamelessly trying to manipulate me over there? :P
Note: I had spare time on my hands, so this is very long.
Manuel
First off, I don't "love to hate" Manuel. I don't hate him at all. I'm fascinated by the person(s) he's been and become: the traumatized, emotionally-destroyed child he was when he arrived at the mansion and the people he's become since then.
He tries out personalities like flavors of ice cream and retains a definitely childish belief in a magical solution that should fix all his problems.
He was pampered and spoiled for most of his life, then thrown into a cycle of repeated abuse that for a normal person would have been devastating and was probably doubly traumatic for someone as protected as Manuel had been. Then he was rescued and brought to the mansion, where he thought things would fall back into a "normal" routine, but no one at the mansion would put up with being ordered around like a servant. As far as they were concerned, he was just like everyone else and didn't deserve special treatment.
To Manuel this wasn't, as some might have thought, a grounding experience or an important life lesson, but just another painful shock in a series. This on top of everyone else's emotions scraping him raw (something it would have been hard not to take as a personal attack). It makes sense that he would lash out and take out his frustration and pain on everyone else, because no one tried to help him in ways he could understand. He was trying to put his world and his life back together- to make them act the way he thought they should act, to make them feel things less painful to him. (But the other characters weren't the villains here, as abuse victims and their continuing problems are hard to deal with, and their emotional problems and defenses enough to frustrate a saint.)
The relationship with Amanda is by turns sweet and disturbing, as neither of them has the skills necessary to hold a conventional relationship, or knowledge of what a healthy relationship is like. But somehow, they make it work and you make it convincing.
Manuel is a great character, and actually seems like he is really hard to write; because it's so hard to find characters with abusive histories that aren't done solely for the sake of melodrama. You've avoided this completely; and created and sustained a character who may not be conventionally "likable", but is understandable and detailed and enjoyable to read about. Often, I'm torn between sympathy and revulsion at his actions (fighting with Nate, the scenes with Lorna and Bobby, and the way he damaged everyone around him).
But I do like Manuel and often feel sorry for him, because he doesn't have to deal with just his pain, he has to deal with everybody else's, as well. And then, of course, he whines and carries on about it so much and blames everyone else for things they can't help until everyone is utterly sick of him, and it's hard for them to overcome their irritation with him long enough to help him. (And they do make heroic efforts: points to Nate and Lorna for not killing him on any number of occasions.) I like Manuel. He's a complicated character with complicated problems and a writer who excels at hard-hitting drama- of course I adore him.
As always, more will be forthcoming.
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Re: Man, it's just _so nice_ when people _get it_...
Date: 2005-07-11 01:35 am (UTC)So- now that we've covered the Spaniard, might you have any thoughts on the Moor?
None you want to read at the moment, as I'm currently kind of sick and my thinking's none too clear; but I'll try to put something up by tomorrow or thereabouts. Is that okay?
Re: Man, it's just _so nice_ when people _get it_...
Date: 2005-07-11 01:38 am (UTC)Get better! Rest and heal!
Redhawk
Re: Man, it's just _so nice_ when people _get it_...
Date: 2005-07-11 01:46 am (UTC)Oddly, I get hyper when I'm sick. Which at the moment means I can't stop bouncing up and down in my chair. I'm kind of afraid I'm going to fall over, but I can't stop bouncing!
Y'know, I keep feeling guilty I don't comment on every single log. It wasn't so bad when I didn't have a livejournal, but now I get that same guilty feeling as when I don't feedback fanfic.
Re: Man, it's just _so nice_ when people _get it_...
Date: 2005-07-11 01:49 am (UTC)There's no call for the guilt. Just pop up once in a while and squee at what you like (and just as importantly) tell us what you _don't_ like, and that'll be more than we could ever realistically ask for.
Redhawk
Re: Man, it's just _so nice_ when people _get it_...
Date: 2005-07-11 02:12 am (UTC)I have never once feedbacked someone and told them I just plain don't like their writing, because personal taste is subjective and someone else might adore it. The only things in writing that truly irritate or anger me are inaccurate facts, or poor handling of abuse and trauma. Or bad spelling. Because I am dyslexic, I often spell words backwards, so I always spellcheck even my comments, to make sure other people can understand them. I don't understand why Certain People can't do the same with their posts.